How would you run this place?

OK, honest question…

I always try to keep moderation on this place fairly light-touch. I kind of see my job to be like a rugby referee - stop people taking lumps out of each other, but don’t ruin the game by forever blowing the whistle.

That said, over recent weeks I have found myself having to enforce the guidelines a little more than before - and I don’t like that.

Some of my interventions have been in response to a flag - others have been pro-active where somebody has defamed or directed insults towards another person.

Also, in recent days I have also temporarily removed posting privileges from a couple of members who have, I believe, made posts that go against what I have tried to achieve - a fintech forum without the insults, meanness and bullying.

But I am not going to lie… I feel a little caught between a rock and a hard place right now.

When I try to keep the moderation light-touch, I receive messages telling me that I am ignoring bullies and turning a blind eye to nastiness. When I call out behaviour that goes against the guidelines I am censoring free speech or targeting people.

There is a degree of being simply unable to win here.

I’ll admit that my patience is somewhat reduced right now - there are only so many times you can ask somebody not to call names and have them totally ignore you and do the same thing minutes later before you lose your rag.

I think it’s time to have a review to take a look at what’s working, what isn’t, what needs change… and what community members actually want.

So, what happens here that you really don’t like? How can we fix it?

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Wouldn’t wanna be in your shoes to be honest.
The monzo forum chat went crazy yesterday with some pretty pointless nonsense on there.

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I think so long as you’re open about shirt and not throwing low-key shade anything should go

Thanks for your continued efforts Liam

I can’t say I always find the environment here that positive for someone not totally down on everyone’s favourite hot coral themed banking institution, but I keep involved in the hope of evolving views

Somewhat ironically, the same vigorous moderation some railed against on that thread as having experienced in a certain other forum might be what they have brought on themselves here. Maybe it’s not about the moderators after all?

Re-open the Monzo thread (or we riot).

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The Monzo Community is not banned as a topic - but I think when 30+ of the last posts were either directly targetted attacks on a named employee of Monzo, content-less posts of only gifs of owls or just simply petty squabbling among themselves, then I think something has gone so far off the rails that I don’t think it could be rescued.

Feel free to create a thread as a continuation.

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Perhaps if 30 posts is calling out someone then maybe they’ve done something wrong - may I add the person in question actually browses this forum and can choose to defend their actions should they wish to do so.

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Agreed - if there were 30 posts showing indisputable evidence that somebody had done something wrong, that thread might still be open.

Only it wasn’t quite how it was.

Piling in on individuals, resorting to base name-calling and general antagonism. Isn’t calling out bad behaviour… it’s bad behaviour.

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We have been criticizing individual things of said individual for quite a while Liam, but you always remove the names :thinking:

There’d be a lot more than 30 there should you have left them sit

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The reason that I inhabit any internet forum is to learn stuff. I am also happy to answer other people’s questions.
In reality all I get is a lot of opinion and little fact. Worse, I often get negative opinion on my offered facts. On the whole I get something out of it so I learn.

What is tiring is the constant sniping between groups and isn’t something that I have any interest in.

I therefore want information about new fintech issues and not squabbling.

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And you think that’s a reasonable thing to do on an internet public forum then? Going after somebody you don’t like, because of the way they do the task they’ve been contracted to do?

I think one problem here is that I just don’t think that’s right. If I am honest, it’s a level of nastiness I;d rather just not be associated with.

When I have a problem with an issue I feel confident debating that particular issue. I don’t feel the need to hurl insults or come up with a not-quite-as-witty-as-I-think-it-is derogatory bastardisation of the person’s name. It’s all rather tawdry.

I know that in the days of Twitter and Russian bot farms its quite common to be nasty to one another - I just don’t really want to be part of that.

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I do think it’s fair game for me to make it known that I think someone is doing their job poorly. If I were at a restaurant and a waiter spat in my food, I think it would be fair game.

But presumably you would do that by making representations to the restaurants management - not by making accusation that you cannot substantiate online.

After all, if you shoot your mouth off online and you say something that you cannot later prove - regardless of how true it is - you could end up substantially poorer.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending any one over on the other place. I think there are plenty of questionable practices going on from what I’ve seen - I just really am uneasy about what at times looks like a pack mentality in the way certain individuals are pursued, mocked and abused.

Moral high ground well and truly lost.

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I would indeed make accusations that I could substantiate; in fact I recall posting images with most of my criticisms.

Consider it a public service even - I believe X is shirt and I’m entitled to that opinion for whatever reason I claim.

What have I said in particular that I can’t prove? I’d also love to see someone take me to court over an opinion :slight_smile:

That wasn’t necessarily about you or anything in particular you have said. I am talking generally about the content of that thread.

Over the last year I have removed multiple potentially libellous posts and a number of others that I don’t think would be too hard to portray as harassment.

I just fail to see the need to be deliberately nasty to others.

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Moderating a forum is hard, I don’t think we’ve found the golden solution I don’t think there is one. You just have to iterate and review things every now and then to make sure it still makes sense.

However there is one good important point. The quote above isn’t a thing. There is no free speech,. Free speech is a concept of the government not interfering in your ability to speak your mind. It does not apply to private individuals or groups.

The rules are the rules, you do not have free speech on someone’s platform. You have the ability to go elsewhere and pay for your own forum, you do not have the right to cause havoc on someone else’s platform under the guise of free speech.

Rules can change and reflection is good, but those shouting free speech are only doing it to cause more trouble and trying to get into your head.

While we also try to be light on moderation, we have to take a heavy hand when it’s appropriate as well or people will continue to take the piss and deliberately try to cause trouble.

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@Eden Couldn’t agree more, and you’ve saved me having to say everything you just said (which is what I was about to do) :slight_smile:

Just to elaborate on one of your key points - this may be a public forum, but we don’t pay for it and it is costing someone their time and possibly money (as much as they give that willingly).

This place has rules and that’s absolutely fair. If we don’t like the way this place is managed we can go elsewhere.

As for free speech, I agree again with @Eden. We only have a limited right to free speech because other people have rights too. However, as mentioned that doesn’t apply here.

@liam I think you do a great job here and your moderation style is clear and firm but not heavy handed. Thanks for that!

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There is also a big misconception that we have freedom of speech in the UK. We don’t. That’s an American right. In Britain, we have a negative right to freedom of expression under the common law. We have a whole list of exceptions to this freedom of expression which would make an American court rage.

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That’s correct. I often think the unfettered right to freedom of speech/expression that some people claim we should have is too one-sided.

I would like to hear people talk more about our responsibilities to not cause offence, and to find ways to express our thoughts while still promoting a harmonious community both here and in everyday life. I think that is exactly what @Liam is trying to do.

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To add my thoughts to others.

I come on here to read, learn and to try to help other people. I like reading about both positive and negative aspects of all companies as it may either reinforce my decisions or question them.

What I dispise is the shouting down of other people and their posts. I have made some comments on various threads and people who have opposite thoughts have posted non aggressively and on a couple of occasions made me rethink some things.

This is for me what this place should be about, debate, learning and challenging others to further discussion and thoughts.

What it is not is a free for all “I’m better than you” mentality.

@Liam you do a great job, let’s be clear and in support of you this is YOUR forum which we all visit and interact with. Set the rules you are happy with and people will engage or go elsewhere.

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