Robo Advisors

What are people’s thoughts on Wealthify (or other robo advisors?)

I joined up to Wealthily around 6 months ago - I’m still some way off getting back to my initial deposit amount…

The whole rollercoaster of a market hasn’t helped, and I’d certainly advise anyone going down this route if you like to check the performance on a daily basis.

Does anyone else have experience with them?

Note - I’m sticking with Wealthify because they gave me 12 months of fee free investing due to their cock ups on my account!

I’m with Wealthify and am also marginally down on my investment. Given the way the FTSE and other markets have dropped I think this is to be expected. The same has happened to my pensions elsewhere.

It’s definitely a long-term thing, like most dealing in stocks and shares.

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Imagine you tell your wife that it’s the best thing to do with the savings right now…

And then this happens :joy:

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I’d rather not … :laughing:

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Yep, as Dan says though this is pretty par for the market right now. The only area I’m looking good at the moment is across my small cap holdings.

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I’m down around the 2% mark on wealthify been a similar time to you Dan. Let’s not talk about pensions being down :cry:

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I use moneybox for my lifetime isa. It’s up 1.8% but I’m using the adventurous setting. Maybe you’re all playing it too safe :thinking:

Wealthify and wealth simple are far too serious for me. I don’t like that they dictate what you invest in based on a questionnaire. I want to make that choice myself so I’ll be using plum and you can just choose tech or emerging markets for example which is far more interesting with far more potential for growth.

All my investments are up a fair bit, hope everyone else is seeing a similar gain :+1:t2:

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Up a bit but just got a fees statement yesterday which appear to have taken half of the years gains. I don’t see the Wealthify circle discount on it though. Only the 0.7% fee

I’m using Wealthify which is fee free for a year as I got it through Aviva. I also use Freetrade as well, but I play (relatively) safe using ETF’s and index trackers. I think Wealthify will beat savings in the long run, especially if you put in over time so balancing out the highs and lows. As always though, it’s long term and day to day security is better in a bank if you are uncomfortable with any losses in the short term.

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I’m thinking of opening a Wealthify account. Does anyone use the circles function?

A lot of us here are in the same circle, maxed out on the discount.

No idea how to get the link for it thought, but can invite by email.

DOUBLEDUTCH is the circle name, think @danmullen created it.

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I’m part of @danmullen’s circle, i’m sure he will give you deets

Edit: Ah, i see @daedal beat me to it!

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Here you go: https://invest.wealthify.com/Circle/Join/Q3HHQP/MU2RFW-WRWM9K/

:+1:t2:

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Cheers Dan :smile:

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I didn’t notice it got to 136 members, they need a 100+ tier discount bought in now lol

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Yeah, I said that the other day to one of my work colleagues :slightly_smiling_face:

My thoughts on robo-advisors are these:

  1. They charge you (much) more than do-it-yourself investment platforms.
  2. In return, they offer to take responsibility away from you and let you invest in the stock market without knowing anything about it.

That could be reasonable, right?

But the issue with them is that the returns they offer are truly abysmal. It costs less than a tenner to buy a good book that explains the stock market.

It costs nothing to read r/ukpersonalfinace to get a summary and direct advice on what to invest in, if you don’t have time to read a book.

A supposed benefit of a robo advisor should be the quality of the “advice”, ie. you might hope that their professionally managed portfolios could beat the average return from the stock market as a whole.

But once you understand how the stock market works, you’ll realise the best you can really hope for long term is to try and capture the market average.

The cheapest and safest way to do that would be to invest in a passively managed global index tracking fund. Ie. You buy stock in virtually every single publicly traded company in the world. You end up maximally diversified in terms of equities, and your investment rises and falls with the stock market as a whole.

An example of such a fund would be Vanguard’s VWRL ETF. It’s as easy to open a vanguard direct account online and pick VWRL as it is to open any robo-advisor account and pick one of their funds.

The difference in your gains will partly be down to fees (Vanguard being much cheaper), but mainly down to the overly complicated portfolios the robo-advisors put together, which perform much worse than the market average.

It’s really difficult to say why the robos don’t just do the right thing by their customers and seek the market average. In their attempt to perhaps differentiate or make copying their portfolios more difficult (perhaps they are trying to make investment seem really complex to their customers?), they end up doing worse than monkeys randomly picking stocks by throwing darts at a board.

Let’s look at how bad they really are:

Nutmeg’s highest performing risk “10” portfolio has a 6.5% 5 year annualised performance.

VWRL’s 5 year annualised performance is 12.52%.

Wealthify don’t have 5 year figures, but their best portfolio gained a total of 25.5% over 3 years.

VWRL gained 45.9% in the same time period.

Wealthsimple has the worst fund performance reporting and the best I could find was their 1 year performance on their 90% growth fund: 5.52%.

It’s not especially meaningful to compare funds over 1 year, and of course VWRL is 100% equity so that’s not a fair comparison, but none-the-less, VWRL gained 11.69% in the same time period.

Have no doubt that the robo-advisors do you an active disservice and charge you through the nose for the privilege.

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I actually transferred most of my pension to nutmeg as my workplace one has higher fees.

Currently up 5.56% so I’m happy with that. No idea how it was doing in my workplace pension as it’s not very clear.

But you’d be happier with perhaps double that for little extra effort and less risk, right?

What do you see as the barrier with going with a stock broker and picking your own investment?